cliff talks. i think what is going on here is the white house heard the criticism and they are trying to breathe some new life into these talks. politico reported there was a phone call between the president and speaker boehner. they claim it was curt as in a short call that did not go well. jay carney just pushed back and said it was a 28-minute phone call. he said it was frank and direct. and it was good, it was positive. they believe, the white house does, that they are making progress. but i pressed jay carney. i said will spending cuts be included? and here is what he said. >> can you hold up that budget, look in the camera and say to your fellow democrats on capitol hill, vote for and include some of these spending cuts in this deal to avoid the fiscal cliff? because that's not what they are doing. should they include those? >> yes. and i know that democrats accept that there -- this has to be a balanced package that includes revenues and cuts and spending cuts. >> reporter: so news the whit